Why do we fall in love with ideas?

Introduced by Maximilien Marxer

Moderated by Alan Taylor

Notes on the 29/5/02 meeting of HKPC's Kowloon Branch

Reported by Steve Palmquist

After I introduced Alan as the guest moderator, Max began his introduction with an explanation of why he chose this topic. As a French exchange student, he took a special interest in the recent elections in France, where the right-wing exteremist, Le Pen, attracted a surprisingly high percentage of votes. Max explained that he did not intend for us to discuss the nature of love relationships; rather, by "falling in love" he was referring to the experience of accepting an idea (especially a new idea) without questioning it, simply because it sounds right and good. He argued that there are external and internal factors involved. The main external factor is our environment, and the whole socialization process that goes with it. Our education, he suggested, creates a "theater" or "stage" that limits what we can and cannot think. Thus, each person develops an internal "culture", which is the "filter" we use to define our own thinking. Max quoted Plato's claim that people tend to fall in love with things they find right and good. In the case of Le Pen, his success seems to be the result of the way he speaks as much as (if not more than) what he actually says. Obviously, he must be fulfilling some perceived need in the inner culture of those who are attracted to him. Max concluded with a question: Do we fall in love with the idea itself, or with the person delivering the idea?

Several interesting points were raised during the time devoted to questions for clarification. One was that it may be possible to fall in love with one's own ideas. That seems to be a case of narcissism. But most of the question time was spent discussing the issue of whether or not "falling in love" is an entirely irrational process. Max maintained that when we fall in love with a person it is usually irrational, but when we fall in love with an idea there is more likely to be some reason behind it. Even in the case of Le Pen, he claimed, the love is essentially rational, because their external environment and internal culture provides them with clear reasons which they believe justify them in supporting such a politician. After a distinction was made between "love" as rational versus "falling in love" as irrational, one person suggested that the topic could be rephrased as "Why do people love ideas?" Alan questioned whether charisma is rational or irrational, to which Max replied that in his sense it is rational. Max then clarified that something can be rational even though it is subjective. Not all rationality is objective.

Alan suggested that the 20-25 people present divide into several small groups for further discussion, and reminded us of Max's closing question. On this occasion, I did something I normally do not do: I switched groups midway through the allotted time. The first group focused mainly on the question of whether or not love can be rational. The tendency of arranged marriages to last was cited as evidence that a person can "choose" to love. But the tendency of love to be obsessive was also noted in support of love's irrationality. The second group spent most of the time talking about issues that were not directly related to the topic, but in the end came up with one interesting insight: not only love, but also hatred often attaches itself both to people and to ideas.

After Alan gathered the groups back into one, several people expressed the view that the answer to Max's closing question is "both": sometimes we fall in love only with the idea, other times only with the person, and still other times with both the person and the idea(s). The point was also raised that we seem to have an inner need to "stick" to something. One person therefore argued that when we adhere to an idea, the process is usually more gradual and reasoned, less obsessive, than genuine falling in love; in the latter case, the image, not the idea, is usually the key factor. But another person responded that even when we fall in love with a person there is usually something in our external environment and something else in our internal (e.g., unconscious) past history that prepares us for the experience and in that sense makes it "rational" in Max's sense. If so, then loving a person and loving an idea might not be all that different. Some people who have a tendency to fall in love with people time after time are actually in love with the idea of love; in this situation, at least, the two phenomena come together. Alan raised the interesting possibility that two persons might fall in love with each other, yet they might each fall in love with different ideas. Finally, it was noted that just as people develop and change, ideas come and go like fashions.

I thought that, although the discussion was rather difficult at certain points due to the language barrier (most of us could not speak French, and Max is still learning English, so he sometimes had to struggle – valiantly – to express what he really wanted to say), the evening's conversation brought out some good food for thought. In our usual post-meeting session, the following topics were suggested for future discussions:

Folly (Why do people persist in doing something bad even when they know it's bad?)

The Art of Loving (cf. Erich Fromm)

Are Philosophers Jokers?

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This page was uploaded on 19 June 2002.